tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post927673528012656416..comments2023-11-03T06:35:51.218-06:00Comments on Evolution Engineered: I Couldn't Have Say It Any Better...JJS P.Eng.http://www.blogger.com/profile/05029579563816207022noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-10379314912340222102008-11-12T07:45:00.000-07:002008-11-12T07:45:00.000-07:00JJS,Thanks for the honesty on the origin of the qu...JJS,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the honesty on the origin of the quote. <BR/><BR/>It looks like you're taking a criticism of Mike Gene's about Richard Dawkins. I don't know what Gene's point was in citing that 6 word phrase from Dawkins' book, but I have read The Blind Watchmaker and it's not a case for "Natural Selection is the engine of change" or anything like that. It's not that fine a point, but there is a reason that Dawkins wrote a whole book on the topic of Natural Selection, as opposed to, you know, starting for six words and deciding, mid sentence, that he'd said enough.<BR/><BR/>I find myself having to reiterate an earlier point -- that you would benefit from reading at least a couple of good books on evolutionary theory. The Blind Watchmaker is truly an excellent book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-14821013139772986902008-11-11T14:10:00.000-07:002008-11-11T14:10:00.000-07:00Tony, it is a truncated quote, and also, I found t...Tony, it is a truncated quote, and also, I found that quote in The Design Matrix. To be precise, it is a truncated quote taken 3rd hand.<BR/><BR/>I don't have The Design Matrix nor The Blind Watchmaker in front of me at this moment, but I would think that it is not a hard quote to find. The extended quote provided by Mike Gene did not suggest that Dawkins does not conflate NS with BW. <BR/><BR/>If true, then metaphors aside, it still suggests Dawkins sees NS as a creative entityJJS P.Eng.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05029579563816207022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-7488652435588514992008-11-11T07:23:00.000-07:002008-11-11T07:23:00.000-07:00JJS,Sorry, but a truncated quote like that (withou...JJS,<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but a truncated quote like that (without page attribution so I can at least read it fully and in context) wouldn't indict a ham sandwich. <BR/><BR/>Do you seriously contend that a man who is considered the best popular writer of evolutionary biology would fundamentally misunderstand his topic?<BR/><BR/>I'd still like to see a quote where Dawkins says what you contend he says. (Btw, that the Blind Watchmaker is a metaphor for natural selection does not mean that the blind watchmaker is therefore tasked with creating mutations; it is a metaphor for natural selection, with a metaphor's advantages and its limitations.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-25438742295035330102008-11-10T23:22:00.000-07:002008-11-10T23:22:00.000-07:00Tony, I was thinking for a sec that I may have con...Tony, I was thinking for a sec that I may have conflated natural selection with the Blind Watchmaker until I ran across this Dawkins quote:<BR/><BR/><I>"Natural selection is the blind watchmaker,..."</I> Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker<BR/><BR/>It's apparent to me that Dawkins already conflates NS with the Blind Watchmaker to which he credits with creating "Designoids".JJS P.Eng.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05029579563816207022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-50330015706586034662008-11-10T18:58:00.000-07:002008-11-10T18:58:00.000-07:00Hmm, JJS. I have to say that I'm curious where you...Hmm, JJS. I have to say that I'm curious where you get that Dawkins says that NS creates mutations. The reason I have to ask is that I've found that Dawkins is often accused of a variety of things that, on further review, no one can find a quote of him actually saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-27659290898751074852008-11-10T16:45:00.000-07:002008-11-10T16:45:00.000-07:00Tony, you get no arguments from me.I do find it in...Tony, you get no arguments from me.<BR/><BR/>I do find it interesting that no one decided to nitpick on my horrible usage of the English language for the post title. ;)JJS P.Eng.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05029579563816207022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-81856074816977881012008-11-10T16:43:00.000-07:002008-11-10T16:43:00.000-07:00RBH, never said it was "amazing". I just wanted to...RBH, never said it was "amazing". I just wanted to point out that MacNeill's view of natural selection differs greatly from those who think NS can create (i.e. Richard Dawkins), and that I share MacNeill's view.JJS P.Eng.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05029579563816207022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-3584082085063663132008-11-09T18:55:00.000-07:002008-11-09T18:55:00.000-07:00Yup. I believe the "engines of variation" is also ...Yup. I believe the "engines of variation" is also sometimes called "mutation." <BR/><BR/>In the Origin of Species, Darwin use the term "natural selection" to distinguish that filter from human-guided selection -- the very well known and accepted ability of animal and plant breeders to isolate traits in a species, creating what he called "varieties." <BR/><BR/>One of the principle insights of Darwin's Origin of Species is that, just a human breeders have isolated features in animals like pigeons, nature can act on organisms to isolate populations whose features abet them in survival.<BR/><BR/>Hence, "natural (not human) selection."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1090883723146476626.post-25501391269254238472008-11-06T22:15:00.000-07:002008-11-06T22:15:00.000-07:00Um, that's not amazing. Even Darwin regretted usi...Um, that's not amazing. Even Darwin regretted using the term natural <I>selection</I>, saying he should have used natural <I>preservation</I>. It's the conjunction of variation-producing processes and natural selection that's creative, not one or the other alone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com